ep. 052 • Finding Independence in Your Henna Business w/ PRO Graduate Jo Kucala

Chelsea: Hey, hey hennapreneurs! Have you ever wondered what it would be like to work alongside me to build your business inside of my program Hennapreneur PRO? Today I want to take you behind the scenes where I'm interviewing one of our recent program graduates, Jo Kucala from Artfully Empowered in Minnesota.

As she was wrapping up her time with us inside of the program, I touched base with her to chat about what her experience was like, how her business has changed since working with me, and what were her biggest takeaways as a program graduate.

You'll get a little bit of a sneak peek of what it looks like to have some coaching with me, too.

So definitely grab a drink, kick your feet up and tune in to this behind the scenes chat just with her. I think that you're really going to enjoy it.

Welcome to the Hennapreneur podcast - the exclusive podcast of its kind dedicated to giving you an honest look at the realities of making a living as a henna professional.

I'm your host Chelsea Stevenson, a tea-loving, shoe-collecting mother of three in constant search for the most popping pair of earrings and the perfect shade of red lipstick. I'm also a professional henna artist and business strategist who went from barely being able to piece together a fluid design to being the owner of the most celebrated henna boutique in my city.

I'm on a mission to help henna professionals to harness their skills and grow vibrant, profitable businesses that they absolutely love. If you want to make more money with your art, you are definitely in the right place. Let's get to it!

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh, Lord, look, I'm all muted over here. Oh my gosh. I even have this thing off. Oops! I'm a hot mess today. Can I tell you? Oh my gosh, the kids have been like running around and it's one of those days where you repeat yourself 60 times over and it's like, are we really doing this? But we're doing this. This is the cadence of the day.

Okay. Got it. How are you?

Jo Kucala: I'm doing well doing well. I'm glad I'm here.

Chelsea Stevenson: Well, listen. Okay. So first of all, I'm so happy. Like, I feel like we sneezed and a year went by and I'm like, yes. And like, all of this feels so, so, so, so bittersweet. And also I noticed–. So I saw your post in the group and I was like, I'm not gonna say anything. 'Cause like, you still have access to the group through the end of the month. So like, even if you want to go to the call this evening when it–. Yeah. We just like, I just give you the end–. And I'm like, just take advantage of it. Yeah. Like, take advantage of it there.

Jo Kucala: Ok.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah. I was like, I'm not going to say anything. And I was like, she'll figure it out.

Jo Kucala: I just assumed it was when the payments went through. So–.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah, I know. I was like–. And so when I saw your post, I was like, ooh. I got all in my feelings and then I was like, okay, I'm going to talk to her on Wednesday. I'll just let her know, like, yeah, take advantage of it. Like, I just give you through the end of the month because it makes it easy for the team. And I'm like, that way you guys could just, you know–

Jo Kucala: Okay. Okay, good to know.

Chelsea Stevenson: Soak up all the–.

Jo Kucala: I'm like, why am I still getting post? I'm okay with it, but like...

Chelsea Stevenson: It's like, oh my gosh. Yeah, no, that's fine. That's fine. That's fine. Okay. So let's start with kind of like from the beginning.

So could you tell me about–. Can you tell me about your business? Like, before you joined the program?

Jo Kucala: Okay. So I'll just say pre-COVID.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah.

Jo Kucala: So I worked primarily under other henna artists in the area. And as you heard, there were some very bad experiences with that, but then I'm also had really fantastic experiences, which I'm still continuing, but I was very reliant on other people to get business and that can be good. Like, I obviously I still do it. So like, there's benefits to that, but I wanted that piece where I could feel more independent on how to do this by myself and like, figure the thing out so thats–. And of course I, you know, expressed that wish and then COVID happened. And I was like, fuck you, firstly. Now you have to. You have no other choice.

Um, and yeah, I don't know. I just, like, I needed help with like, the back end stuff, because I'm like, I can do the artsy thing, but like, I don't know how to do anything else.

And, um, so yeah. What am I trying to say? Basically, I didn't know how to do the thing by myself and was still just very choppy on like, keeping records on things.

I'm still pretty choppy on that. Working on it. But I have more of an idea now. Don't need to wait on that part, but oh, well, it is what it is. But so, yeah, that was basically pre– like, it just always felt like I had my business for awhile, but it just, it never felt solid. It never felt like–. I always felt like I was a new business owner. I never got to like that confident space where it was like, yeah, I'm a business owner. It was just–. It just felt very passive. I guess that's kind of the word.

Chelsea Stevenson: So when you joined the program, like, what was it then that caused you? What was it that motivated you to choose to join the program? Like, what was your primary goal when you came in? Was it that like, that independence piece?

Jo Kucala: It was the independence and, um, I, yeah, cause actually when–. That week, I was wanting to, um, go to this art school in Minneapolis and like, it's like a fine art school and there was this class and I was like, I want to do this. So that just, like, I started watercoloring around then and I was like, I want to, like, I would just copy pictures. I didn't have like, any of the techniques. That's why I was just like, I want to build on those skills. And I was like, ooh, it's going to be expensive.

And then I saw your thing and like, I listened to your podcast before. But, so I think that's like, I'd gotten my feet wet, um, and so I saw your thing and I was like, "Oh wait! Hey, honey! So I know this is like way more expensive. It'll show me the back end stuff. And like, I'll get like, way more out of it than like a couple of weeks class. Like so much more. And like, it is my business so like, that's probably what I should do."

And, um, so yeah. You came at a good time.

Chelsea Stevenson: I love that.

Jo Kucala: Like, I was just about to sign up for this class and I'm so glad I didn't because I needed that business, um, the business side to work on. So...

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah.

Jo Kucala: Um...

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh, wow.

Jo Kucala: So yeah, that's what, you know, it was just that independence. Yeah. Yep. That's it.

Chelsea Stevenson: Cool. So, you know, I–. So I remember when you joined–. When you joined, I was actually sitting at dinner. I was at a restaurant with my husband and, um, I was sitting at dinner and I got this notification. It's like, you know, "Jo signed up for PRO" and I'm like, well, that's awesome, you know? But we didn't even have like, conversation around it. So like, I never got any perspective from your side, like, what the thought process was.

So I'm interested to know, like, when you first joined the program, did you have any hesitations about working with me? And if so, what were those, um, if they existed?

Jo Kucala: I don't think I did. I just, you know, I'm a very like gut-driven person and I just had a good gut feeling. Um, but that's just my personality. And then I have my husband who is more of like the logical skeptic and like, holds me down a bit.

Chelsea Stevenson: That's me. I'm the same. I'm like, this feels good in my gut. And I'm like, I'm just going to go with the energy around this decision. And he's like, "So, did you think about any of those?" I'm like, "It just feels right."

Jo Kucala: He's like, "Is this a scam?" Like, I mean, "'Cause you never know with people." And like I'm like, "Yeah, she's like, legit. It's not like, I don't know how to explain this to you like this. It's not like–." Oh my gosh. And so like, we had this huge heart to heart. I think I told you about it. And I was like, you need to like, trust me. Like, this is my business. I need you to trust that I can make decisions around this. And so like, we both were crying. I was like, I'm doing it. So I did it.

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh, my gosh. I love that so much. I love that so much.

Jo Kucala: Oh yeah. It was like a huge trust piece and yeah.

Chelsea Stevenson: Has he–. I have to know now, is he like looking back and seeing like, oh yeah, that was the right call?

Jo Kucala: Like, I haven't talked to him about it, but I mean, I'm super busy right now so we can't say it's not the right call.

Chelsea Stevenson: Well, there is that! I'm always interested to hear like, when partners–. 'Cause you know, of course you want to make space for your partner to like be a part of the decision making process and whatnot. And it's always interesting when you have one partner that's like, hmm, I don't know about this. And then it's like, okay, well, did you change your mind? Like, that's what I always ask. I'm like, but that's just me being nosy. Oh goodness.

Jo Kucala: No, we actually don't. We haven't talked about it because it was just like, yeah. And like, I obviously took my time with the program and he was like, trying to be like, are you done with the–. Like, I mean, take your time, but like, are you done with it yet? That was like the most of our conversation.

But I guess the other night we did have like–. So we've been talking about moving to a different state and he's like, well, I don't know if we should move to a different state because we'd have to restart everything. And like, things are picking up for you and like, so we'd just have to go back to square one and that's just really overwhelming to think about. And I'm like, well, clearly I can do the thing, like if I need to.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yes!

Jo Kucala: So I don't know. It just feels like I just got my business going, right? So like, I feel like I'm a real business person now. Um, once I get that back end stuff really tuned in, but, um, you know, I'm bringing in the clients and things like that. Um, so it would suck to redo it, but I'm like, man, I'm not that far along. I can.

Chelsea Stevenson: Absolutely. Yeah.

I just think about like, even myself having picked up and moved. Like, I've moved my business now three times across country. And so, you know, moving and restarting, it's really, it is overwhelming, but like, if you feel like moving is the right move, it's the right choice for your family, dude, it's totally doable. It's totally doable.

And the beautiful thing is you really do, like, the foundation's already there. You know what to do. And because you know what to do when you get there, you can be that much more strategic about mapping it out from the get-go rather than like, you know, like, floundering around trying to put the pieces together.

So I just–. I offer that to say like, if you all are really thinking about it and you feel like that's the next best step for your family, like, don't let this be what holds you back. You can totally relaunch again.

Jo Kucala: There is the part where I usually work evenings and weekends though. And, um, we'd be going to where we don't have that family support if need be. That's where he's really caught up. And I'm like, but I could do more, like, finish my postpartum doula certification and like, you know, it's flexible hours and things like that, but he has not caught on to that. So, um, that would be a part we need to figure out doing the schedule because people don't really want henna during the day, usually, so... They're at work.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah.

Jo Kucala: He works during the day. So I would work during the evenings. And so like, if we want to–. He plays disc golf, so if he ever wants to go just golfing, like that would, and you know, and then we want actual family time together. And so, you know, um, yeah, it would just be less cushion if something else is going on or whatever. I don't know. Once again, he's the skeptic. Logics everything to a pulp.

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, you guys will find what works for you, for sure. Like, that part, that's just like living it, you know what I mean? Like, action and clarity, you know? So once you do it, then you can figure it out and you figure out what works best.

Jo Kucala: That's what I'm trying to say. And I'm like, you just gotta trust that it's gonna all work out. He's not as trusting. He's like, "Hmm, if you could show me some data first though, that'd be great. Where are the spreadsheets?"

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh my gosh.

I remember when I first went full time, it was 2014. I went full-time when I had, uh, when I had Maya and that was the first time that my husband was like, "You need hours of operation." And I was like, "But I don't really." Like, "You do."

And it was for the same reason though. Like, we didn't have a lot of like support, so to be able to balance the kids back and forth and like, he would come home and then I would leave and then I would go, and I was still nursing, so I was at a coffee shop that was very close by. So I'd go and I'd work and then I'd come back home and nurse and then I'd go back and see my clients again. And like, there was so much like moving around, we didn't have a lot of time for like the collective family time and hobbies and all that. And so that's where he really started to nail down like, "No we're going to need hours."

And I remember the first time that I put together this little, like, you know, like a graphic saying, 'okay, I've got hours of operation now' and feeling like, so official with that. And I didn't, I blew through those hours. Like, I just totally acted like they didn't exist, but it was out there. And that meant something to him, you know? It was like I was trying. It's so funny. It's so funny. Um, but no, like now I definitely have made space for that. So even at the boutique, I only work Tuesday through Saturday.

So Tuesday, or excuse me, Wednesday through Saturday. I actually took Tuesday off earlier this year because of soccer. The kids, all three of them were playing and we had to be at different fields on some of those days. So Tuesdays I just totally removed. So now I only work from Wednesday through Saturday. Wednesday through Friday being in the evening and then Saturday being during the daytime, uh, to wrap up by like, two or three o'clock. And then in the evening for Saturday, that's reserved for private parties. So if I'm not hired on for a party during the evening time, then Saturday nights are family time and Sunday is always family time.

So that's what it looks like for me from a practical, because we're in the same place right now. Like, we don't have family here and I'm very distrusting with like, the care of my children. Very distrusting. So always they're with him or they're with me. And so, but that's what it looks like for me from like a practical.

I'm like, you guys will find a thing. You'll find what works.

Jo Kucala: It's helpful to hear.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. So, um, enough about me. Tell me more about what your business is like now. You said that things have picked up for you in many ways and like you're getting busy and you've seen that change. So what do things look like for you?

Jo Kucala: Now I'm obviously getting all these fucking bridals and I actually have one tomorrow that I'm doing all day and I need to send her a design today. Um, but I'm getting calls for, you know? I've been working so much and, um, it's really great. And I've only done–. With all that I've been busy the past few weeks and coming week or two, um, I've only done one festival for someone else.

So all the rest is me doing the thing which is super cool and like, way different than ever.

Um, I did end up setting more times and like the cofeef shop locations, um, but I still haven't gotten any individual appointments like we talked about a week or so ago, but that's okay. I don't know. Right now those are seeming like busy work. Yeah.

I still think I need to go narrow down what I'm doing more because someone actually called me the other day and was like, "Hey, I saw you just did this bridal for this gal–." and I think she was like going, like, I think she's attending another wedding and she's like, I want henna for myself and like some aunties and things like that. Um, and she wanted it on a Wednesday, but I didn't have Wednesdays open for like, group events. I think I had them open for individual appointments, so I don't understand that. How I should do that for parties versus individual appointments?

But, um, anyways, she wanted a Wednesday and I didn't have anything open. And I was like, "Oh, sorry about that. I'll go open that up for you." Like, give me a second.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah.

Jo Kucala: Um, but she actually never booked because she wanted me to use the fresh henna from India that's being shipped over right now and I'm like, "Well, actually, no, because, you know, my insurance doesn't cover that. I make my own. It's organic. It stains very well. I'm very proud of the paste I make. I don't use anything else." She's like, "Well, we were hoping to cut down on cost or something with it." And I was like, "Nah, girl, you're going to have to pay, like, triple the amount." I didn't say that, but like, no.

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh my gosh. That's what's fascinating to me. It's like, that would be, you want to reduce its cost so you want different paste?

Jo Kucala: Like, that's nothing.

Chelsea Stevenson: You're paying for the skill. Oh my God.

Jo Kucala: I was like, "If you liked my work then that's what you're paying for." So I'm like, whatever, I don't care. So, um, but then another party booked for the next night – last night – and I just got a notification that I had a party book for eight to 10 people. But they only signed up for an hour. That was my biggest gathering. And now I'm like, how much time do I have to do? 'Cause they're like, "Well, can we have another artist there?" And so I have to figure that out today too and call them back because I can't do eight to 10 people in an hour and a half because I'm sure they're going to want bigger pieces.

Chelsea Stevenson: I don't know. An hour and a half is plenty for–.

Jo Kucala: I don't know what style they want.

I don't know what they want because they didn't contact me beforehand. They just booked it. And that's what–. Actually, I still am having anxiety about people booking without contacting me 'cause like, I don't know what they're really wanting. And I'm assuming it;s for, you know, a wedding, so they're going to want bigger pieces or maybe everyone wants two hands or something like that. So I don't know if that's enough for that. Enough time for that many people. And I have sped up. Like, at these festivals, I really found my speed again.

Chelsea Stevenson: I love it. There are a couple of things that I want to offer you there. Okay, so the first thing was with bookings. So, in the booking system, I know you said the difference between like groups and like having it actually as a group, a category, or just having a booking and like, that's what the group just books. So what I prefer, when you go into Acuity and you create your service suite, one of the offerings that you can have is like "Group For" and then you need to put the number of people that you can service during that timeframe. When you do that, then it's going to allow one person to put one booking on the calendar to reserve that one time slot, whatever that is.

If you use the group option inside of Acuity, in some ways that it works.

So there's two different ways that you can do this. The way that it works forward-facing is if someone has access to that link, anyone can book for that group. So you could have someone who's like, "Oh, I'm coming with a group of four." And you're like, "Okay, awesome. Here's the link." Those four people sign up or three people sign up and then some random down the street also decides that they want to come in seeing it as like, open hours. So then they book in, too. And now all of a sudden you have this stranger who's booked in to come with these other three people, you know?

So if you use the group functionality, you wouldn't want it to be public-facing. You would want to keep that as a private link on the backend. Because it's not published, no one can actually see it. They would have to contact you and then you send them the link saying "Here, this is where you can book in for whatever timeframe," so that way only that person and their guests could make their reservation. When you do it like that, that would be like to set the group up for per person payments. So that's, you know, her and her four friends. She's got the link. I'm paying for me. And those other three are paying for themselves. This is the link. Go book for this time, right? Um, does that make sense?

Jo Kucala: I don't think that's what I'm doing, but I think I–.

Chelsea Stevenson: So that's one option. That's not what I suggest, but if you wanted to do it that way, where you're using the groups functionality inside of Acuity, that's what that would look like and that's how I would suggest doing it.

Jo Kucala: I think I've seen that. I'll have to dig around.

Not that I need to.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah. Yeah. So like a group thing. Um, it's like, I think they have it listed as groups or like, classes, One of those things.

Jo Kucala: Oh, yeah, I have seen that. Is this a group or a class?

Chelsea Stevenson: That's what that means. So it really does, if it's public-facing, anyone can sign up for that time slot. That's just why I say you would want to have it be a private listing. Um, but also, that's one of those situations where Acuity is going to allow them to charge per person. So you could have, like, okay. if you have a group of whatever, it's going to be X-amount per person, and you can cap it at however many people per group. And then those, you know, they can then share the link amongst themselves to have everyone reserve their spot inside of that container.

Jo Kucala: Okay.

Chelsea Stevenson: I prefer to have it just much more simple. So what I have at the boutique is group numbers. So I say, 'This is a number of guests – Henna for Two, for Three, for Four, for Five, whatever,' and it's just, there's the full price. I don't care which one of y'all books it, but it's one booking, one payment, one time slot. I don't have to worry. And then that makes it so that I can have it public-facing so there's no concern about anyone else, like, inadvertently signing up for a spot that's intended for one particular group.

Jo Kucala: Okay. So that's what I've been doing. I just have the one price for a certain amount of people but I'm realizing [that] I think where my snag is [that] I think I need to separate it so that birthday parties are separate because I could do a lot more smaller pieces for a birthday party versus, you know, gals who are wanting henna to go to a wedding or something.

Chelsea Stevenson: Well, and–.

Jo Kucala: Because otherwise, I don't know how to word that in there.

Chelsea Stevenson: That may be so, but that also might just be your perception, right? That that may be so, but it also may just be your perception.

Like, do they really want more for the weddings or do you have a photo of what they can anticipate going alongside of that listing in Acuity?

Jo Kucala: I do have lists. I do have photos on it, yes. And I think they're smaller, like, kids' sized pieces. So I think I just need to go in there and fine-tune it. Just, yeah.

Chelsea Stevenson: You could definitely have–. Like, you could have it in there where you have like a listing that's for general party henna and have the image that's just showing like a party strip. And then you could have a separate listing for like, more in depth, whatever, and be sure that you show that image that's showing them more of the coverage that they could anticipate.

Alternatively, you could have, still under one listing, where it's, you know, henna for five people, for example, and the image shows the party strip. And then what you could do is, inside of Acuity, you could use the add-on feature for them, too. You can create an add-on which will add-on like, an additional fee. And using that feature, you can have it like, um, "upgrade to full hands", right? Like, "upgrade to full hands", and when they click that check box, it will add whatever that additional fee is to their total.

And so, then you'll know also when it comes in on your booking side, "Okay. A group has scheduled for Henna for Five and they have an add-on of full hand."

So that can allow you the, you know, the space to also be aware. The only thing that would be a little bit of a hang up there is that the add-ons feature, it adds on price, but it doesn't add-on time. So if you wanted to use that just check box instead, you could test it instead of creating a separate listing. You could test it and see how it works, but perhaps in doing that testing, you might consider adding on additional padding on the back end of your appointments, just for scheduling purposes, um, so that you are sure that like, you have plenty of time. So there's that.

And then the third piece that I was going to offer is like, regarding the container. Honestly, for a group of 10, even if they're wanting party-style designs, what I like to plan for on average party-style designs is somewhere between 12 to 15 per hour.

So even if you had a group of eight to 10 people, if you book for an hour and a half, that's plenty of time for you to be able to knock it out. Um, what I–.

Jo Kucala: Okay.

Chelsea Stevenson: How I have things set up for my guests – because I don't make a distinction whether it's a large design or a small one – um, when they come in for group appointments at all, uh, I give them the choice. We can do one full hand or you can do two party-style hands, which would you prefer? And so they feel like they, you know, have autonomy in that decision and if they really want to have two, they can have the two. But I know that it takes me about the same amount of time to do one full hand versus two party hands so it kind of puts the ball back in their corner and then they can decide what they value more.

Jo Kucala: I needed that reframing because I'm like, well, yeah, I can do 15 really quick things for kids. So I think if I put like, an hour and a half, I could do 10 to 15 people and I can say either one full hand or two party strips. Would I put that on the listing?

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah.

Jo Kucala: Or would I just say that in person?

Chelsea Stevenson: I would put that on the listing. I put it on that because then it makes it easy for them. You know, they can.

Jo Kucala: [inaudible]

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah, just for them to kind of have that idea. And then whoever is actually doing the booking, then they can share that information with whoever else is coming with the group.

So literally when they sit down, I just ask them: "Okay. So, hey, y'all! I'm so glad you guys have gotten here–" like, whatever. Um, "I want everyone to know we're working on hands today, but you have choices. So these are your choices. Do you want to do one full hand or do you want to have two smaller hands?" And I let them know, like, "If we do a full hand, that's two inches above the wrist down to all fingertips. If we do it as a party strip, it's going to be like a strip style design that goes from the wrist to one finger. And normally, I'll put a little bit of an accent finger just because I like to have extra fun that way," and everyone laughs. They all laugh. I don't know why that's funny, but everyone laughs whenever I say that. And then they pick, you know? And it just work like that. So yeah.

Jo Kucala: That was reframing in my brain.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah. I'm glad.

Jo Kucala: Okay. Thank you.

Chelsea Stevenson: You're so welcome. So how else do you think things are going right now?

Jo Kucala: I'm just doing a lot of that fine-tuning stuff right now. A lot of that now that I'm getting a better idea of like, what practically and in reality, how things are coming in, um, so that's been going well. Going well. I don't know. I mean, it's confusing, but I'm also–. Yeah. It's solidifying and I'm getting a better understanding of like, bridal packages. That's kind of like my next beast to tackle. I would like to have like, a sheet laid out visually for myself and for clients just to like, "Okay! Hey, this is what you can expect for $200. This is what you can expect for $400."

And is like, $200 minimum, does that sound reasonable?

Chelsea Stevenson: I actually–. I think that my minimum is – I just raised it – it was $275. I think that now it's actually $375 for bridal because, I mean, any time you're sitting with a bride, you're looking at, on average, two hours at minimum. My party rate is also [a] two-hour minimum so I just started there, like, if I'm going to work for two hours, it's two hours. Like, you know? So...

Jo Kucala: Ok, that might be my next step. I think, for now, I'll probably start with hour and a half parties and I've got to get rid of my smaller one. Um, yeah, that's a Future Jo, next step thing.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah. I love that.

Jo Kucala: So, yeah.

Yeah, like I said, I'm just doing a lot of fine-tuning and just building up that confidence and holding onto things and working.

Chelsea Stevenson: I love it! Yeah!

So, okay. So I know, inside of the community, obviously, we share a bunch of wins in the Inside Circle, but oftentimes like, there are other things happening in the background, but like, we don't share. So I'm interested to know if you could tell me more about the results that you've had since we started working together, like over the past 12 months.

Jo Kucala: The results? Um, well, I don't know how to elaborate more on them. I'm sorry.

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh yeah. No, no, you're fine. So I'm wondering if there are actually–. Here, let me reframe the question a little bit, because we've talked a little obviously already about like, just the increase in independence and, you know, these new bridal bookings that are coming in and you're like, having a more solidified thing and even just you feeling like, "Oh my gosh, I've got a business now," like, that's huge! Um, but I'm wondering if there are any other ways, like in what other ways have you benefited from your time inside of the program? And that could be like, from the business side or from the life, even just like, general individual perspective, right?

Jo Kucala: I liked hearing everyone else's like, wins and losses, and it just felt more realistic because it's really easy to see other henna artists online, you know, just like, "Oh, look at all these videos I'm posting and look how amazing and I can practice every day and do great," and so it was nice having a little bit more realistic perspective of what it's actually like day to day and other people who are struggling with mental health and things like that.

I've also just kind of like, as I've gone through the program, I started off in a pretty deep depression and I kind of had some ups and downs during it, um, so that's why I would be quiet. You know, um, when I was quiet, that would be why. Because like, I couldn't do anything. Um, and so now that I've been able to clear myself of that and recover, um, I have been able to see–. Like, at first I was like, I was feeling better, but I was like," I'm still not working, like, the best," because like, I didn't have the energy to. I didn't have any energy to actually put the effort in and so then I, you know. But now that I'm getting stuff in, I'm able to like, handle it and take it with stride rather than getting overwhelmed with everything. And so it was just nice seeing other, you know, everyone else kind of going through similar things and panicking about things and "I panic about that, too!" Bouncing ideas off each other. It was really nice.

And, um, I'm gonna really miss the group. Just being able to ask those questions that I don't exactly actually want the rest of the world to know, like, have that group perspective, but not "Oh, hey," you know, "person who lives in a totally different country whois like, 'You charge that much for that design?!'" Like, "Well, yes, because my area allows for that." And like, you know?

So it's, yeah, it's nice having that positive, upbeat, even if I resisted it sometimes.

Chelsea Stevenson: Total resistance. Like, oh my gosh. I remember early on, I was like, Jo is going to just say no to everything that I'm saying, but I love it so much. No, honestly, I love it so much.

First of all, because it's like, super exciting. I love a challenge. So I'm like, Jo, you will learn this. I will, I will get in this. I will, like, we–. And, um, and also too, because oftentimes like, there's often like mindset stuff that's happening in the backend that keeps us from making, like, seeing the full picture. So it's like when you have someone who questions all the things. It's not a bad thing. Like, if anything, it's like, "Okay, how can I?" It pushes me, too. Like, it pushes me to be able to come to the table and say, "Okay, how can I reframe this or restructure this or convey this in a different way that makes the dots connect?"

Jo Kucala: I'm good at that, I guess.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah, no, I loved it. I loved, honestly, I love, love, loved that part about working with you. Like, yeah.

Jo Kucala: I was known for that, but I guess it makes sense.

Chelsea Stevenson: I mean, you come in guns blazing. You're like, " And so I'm a rebel." I'm like, "Yes, you are." Oh my gosh.

And I say it like, it really–. I say it from like, total love and admiration, so it's good feedback. It's good feedback.

Jo Kucala: Yeah, I frequently have to talk with my husband. Once again, he's the spreadsheets guy, like coming up with our budget for the family – which we still haven't agreed on – but he's like, he wants to do like, the spreadsheets and thi, and break it down this really weird fucking way. And I'm like, "But why not just write it down on paper right here? Like, I need to write it down here and I need to break it up in this way." He's like, "Well, we have to go a little over this way." And I'm like, "Okay, I get it. We have the same goal, but my brain is over here and your brain is over there. We need to do it. I need to do it this way. I can't do it that way. And you need to be okay with that."

Chelsea Stevenson: Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Jo Kucala: So we always have "we have different brains, they work different way" conversations. So, but it seems like there's, uh, several gals in the group who also have brains who work a different way. And lots of them. So I think that's what drives us to be in this program is because we haven't been able to figure out as neurotypicals do. Um, we need that slight adjustment – that reframing.

Chelsea Stevenson: Ah, I love that actually. That makes a really great segue, actually, into something that I'd love to know, too. Like, just as it relates to the program delivery and whatnot, like, from your perspective, how engaging did you find the program delivery to be specifically as it relates to like, the content, the coursework that's provided there?

Jo Kucala: Um, it was good. Yeah, I liked it. Of course, so it's just like go at your own pace and it was hard at first, but it was good that each one didn't open up. So like, I couldn't jump ahead or go see what this is all about or, you know. Like, I had to go through the steps as it was structured to be so I did enjoy that.

The content was good and kept me engaged and yeah. I didn't really use the printouts for each module. I didn't really use those. I dunno why, but I would catch myself almost every time, like, using the first page or two, and then I would kind of lose it on that. I don't know why.

Chelsea Stevenson: That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I used to actually have a question specific to that. Like, where I would ask about like, "How did you find the workbooks to be?" But it's so interesting. It's really, honestly, it's not even a matter of if the workbooks are useful or not. They're useful for some people and for others, they're not. Like, there are so many different learning styles. That's why I really like to know how it kept you engaged or if it kept you engaged, because I really do try to make sure that like, any program that I create, that there's something to make it applicable and really accessible for everyone, regardless of what that learning style is.

Jo Kucala: So I did really use the one where we did the money mapping, though. I was really confused at first and I was resistant. I was like, "Fuck you." but then I liked it. "It doesn't make sense. How am I supposed to do this?" And then it–. And then it happens. I was like, "Oh. Okay."

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh my gosh. I love that so much. I love that.

Okay. So let me ask you then, I feel like we've touched on it quite a bit. So let me ask you this. Would you move forward? Like, would you recommend Hennapreneur PRO? And if so, why and to whom would that be?

Jo Kucala: Yes, I would. And I'm already glad to see a couple of my friends have joined. Not that I never talked to either of them beforehand, but, um, but yeah, I do absolutely recommend it because it really did kind of help me launch off. I don't think I worded that properly, but you know, help me get my feet off the ground and do my thing and build that independence where–. Cause like, one of my friends, she works under a lot of different artists as well and so it's nice seeing her bloom and get her independence that she so desperately craves as well.

And that's just like a lot of people around here. Like, in my area, we have a really good community for the most part. So we're able to bounce off each other, but yeah, I also see a lot of henna artists who haven't found that confidence to do it themselves. And it's really hard to find that bush yourself when all you see for work opportunities is working under these big people. And there's just so much more to henna than that. And it's way more fun and it's not so–. It doesn't have to control your life.

Chelsea Stevenson: So, oh, I love that part about it not having to control your life. Yeah. Because I'm like, it's so important, like, to have the work-life harmony and it's like, if the systems aren't in place, it really does take over your time, your schedule. Like, your ability to be a whole person.

Jo Kucala: I'm just going to go be gone from my city for like, the next two-three months. Like what? I can't do that.

Chelsea Stevenson: Absolutely! I have no desire to. I'm like, "That's a pass for me." For me, that's a pass, you know?

Jo Kucala: I mean, if that works for them, great! But anyone with like, a partner or kids or any other sort of job or life–.

Chelsea Stevenson: Yes.

Jo Kucala: Friends, things that you would like to be around, um, that doesn't work. And I think that timeframe is short for people that it does work for and they need to know that there's more to it than that.

Yeah, but it's beneficial for other people who aren't doing that. You know, obviously people who are new to it, obviously, I've been doing henna professionally for like the last seven years. Still finally just got myself off the ground, but, um, but that's okay. Um, yeah. So it's very one in all, you know? Like it's a new perspective and they love all the good vibes and just having that as really important.

Chelsea Stevenson: Definitely. Definitely. What would you say is the most important thing that people should know about working with me inside of the program?

Jo Kucala: It's just really fucking positive. And uplifting. Aggressively positive.

Chelsea Stevenson: I love that. Oh my God. That just gave me like the lump in my throat. Jo, don't make me do that.

Okay.

Jo Kucala: Whether you like it or not.

Chelsea Stevenson: It's going to be a positive experience.

Oh, my gosh. I love that. Cool.

Jo Kucala: Yeah, and it brings the tight-knit community and, yeah, it was just a safe space.

Chelsea Stevenson: Is there anything that you would like to add or anything that you would want me to know about your experience inside about anything that can be better implemented, better developed, better deliver or anything that you're like, "I really loved that and I wanted you to know"?

Jo Kucala: Um, oh gosh, I don't know specifically. I mean, I like it all. That's it.

Chelsea Stevenson: "I liked it all." Period. I'll put an emoji with a flat face. Like, with the flat face?

Jo Kucala: It was a nice experience.

Chelsea Stevenson: Don't say nice. It's triggering for me! Like, nice?! That's not what I was going for. Oh my Gosh.

Jo Kucala: I'm just trying to think back. Um, so yeah, I really appreciate being in the group and I appreciate all your aggressive positive love and dealing with me.

Chelsea Stevenson: Oh no. Are you kidding? I've so enjoyed you. So enjoyed you. You have no idea. Uh, yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. All right.

Jo Kucala: Awesome. Thank you!

Chelsea Stevenson: You're so welcome. Thank you so, so much for taking the time. This has been such a great time spending this past year with you.

Jo Kucala: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

Chelsea Stevenson: You're so welcome.

Jo Kucala: I was going to celebrate, do a big henna and then I was going to post like, "Oh my gosh! I'm just celebrating my end of year with Hennapreneur PRO and go do the things with her because she's amazing." So–.

Chelsea Stevenson: I love it. I love it. I love that. Go, yes, go and celebrate the thing! That's like, that's beautiful. That makes me so happy and keep an eye out because I have, um, I have the things going your way, too. 'Cause I noticed, like at the last minute, I was like this chick slid in at the last minute with her graduation. The graduation–. Yeah, I was like, "Did she just finish The Accelerator? I don't think so, but okay. Whatever." But no, I'll send a–. So I've got that coming out your way too so keep an eye out for the mail.

Jo Kucala: Sounds good. Thank you!

Chelsea Stevenson: Alright, bye!

And there you have it, friends. I hope you enjoyed tuning in to that little discussion between Joe and I, obviously I had a wonderful time chatting with her and even more fun working with her over the past year.

If after tuning into this conversation, you feel like, "Hey, Hennapreneur PRO might be something that works for me, too," I want to invite you to come and join us inside. We'll be opening registration for the final time in 2021 just later on this month. So if you haven't already, be sure to join us in the Facebook group where you'll be able to get first updates for when doors open and more about what's included inside. I hope to see you there! Bye for now.

Hey friend, I just want to give you a quick thank you for tuning into this episode of the Hennapreneur podcast and I hope that you're really enjoying connecting with me in this way. You can find links to all of the content shared today in the show notes located at Hennapreneur.com/ podcast.

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